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rockstarpeach at 11:11pm on 04/11/2011 under i like the sound of my own voice
rockstarpeach at 11:11pm on 04/11/2011 under i like the sound of my own voiceYeah, I said it.
I loved this episode. Not as much as last week, but come on, it's damn near impossible to like something as much as last week :)
I was all ready to feel guilty and defensive because even before Dean called Sam a bitch I said to a friend of mine "I know Dean's kind of an asshole these days, but Sam's really being a little bitch about it".
And a couple of weeks back I was saying how Sam would probably have done the same and how Dean was doing Sam a favour by killing Amy because he knew Sam couldn't.
I know, that's horrible. What Dean did sucked beyond the telling of it. (And I know some people seriously disagree with me about this whole thing). But I think all told, Dean did the right thing and his mistake was in not telling Sam and not in killing Amy.
And I was all prepared to hate this episode because they weren't getting along and I was all prepared to hide in a corner because my opinion is probably pretty unpopular, but the ending? The ENDING!!!!!!!!!!!
OMG, they were just so cute I want to huggle them both and I love them more than words can possibly express!! They wuv each other so much and they are seriously freakin' adorable! And Sam agreed that he'd probably have killed Amy too, if she wasn't a friend. Which... not cool, when you think about it. Kind of makes him as much of a dick as Dean, but still. They're sort of on the same page, which makes me happy :)
And Dean needs to get laid. Like, for real. The entire episode I was rooting for him to hook up with that chick (because God knows Sam isn't putting out these days :P) but alas, Dean remains unsatisfied. Shit, Sam must be an awesome lay, for Dean to wait it out like this ;)
Also, Sam is acting like a first class dick. Usually Sam is at least pretending to be sympathetic and kind to witnesses and victims, but lately he's been flat out cold. I think he's always actually been cold, he's just a better actor than Dean, so when Dean laughs and Sam gives the puppy eyes, people respond to Sam's empathetic face. I think Sam actually doesn't really care about people as much as Dean does, never did, and I think now that's starting to come through.
I don't know what Sam's problem is, if it's the Lucifer thing, or if he's fed up with Dean or the life or what, but he's not acting like himself. I'm curious to see where that's going. I know I've mentioned that Dean seems fed up, but Sam's getting there too. Actually today Dean seemed good. Like he was having fun for the first time in a long time.
God, and when Sam killed that guy, he looked like he was about to break into tears for a second - and yay, because he SHOULD - but then he seemed to get over it pretty quick. Turning point, I guess, where he gets what Dean did and why.
And how much do I love that Dean's whole problem wasn't killing Amy, but in lying to Sam about it? LOTS!!! He's all 'I was lying to you and it felt wrong'. GOD! Made of win. At least Dean's learned that lesson. Always tell Sam the truth.
Yeah... So this was kind of scattered. Sorry about that.
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And I didn't really notice Sam acting so much colder with witnesses etc, but now that you mention it I can see it. And I agree that Dean seems to have always cared more for the people they were saving. I think Sam is essentially more selfish than Dean.
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Yeah, Sam has always been colder and less caring than Dean, I think. It's funny, because at first he comes off as sympathising and like he wants to help, and Dean seems very brash and kind of dickish. But underneath, I think Dean actually cares more about people, where it's more just a job for Sam. Or, at least that's how Dean used to feel. He's a lot less into it these days than he used to be.
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Except there should have been hugging.
I love it when they actually TALK to each other.
*happy sigh* :)
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I HAVEN'T technically watched the ep. from last week, or this, yet, but I am looking forward to watching both soon. (Not to worry...spoilers never actually SPOIL it for me. I read them on purpose, to know what to look forward to. LOL!) *sighs* I hate it when RL interferes with my priorities.
I've noticed in the eps that I HAVE watched, Sam does seem a bit...off. I'm chalking it up to the whole Lucifer thing, until I'm eventually proven wrong.
Dean, I think, is wondering when the sacrifices end, maybe? Like...'I've given this everything I've got, and then some. When is enough going to actually be enough?' The guy's gotta be feeling the weight of the cosmos, by now, y'know?
So, anyway, thanks for whetting my appetite, like a lot. LOL!
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I totally agree with you about Dean. He's seeming very tired lately, like he's just done and he's just going through the motions, but his heart really isn't in it anymore.
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I <3 Hulu. They keep me MOSTLY caught up. Which is tons better than not watching at all, right? Right.
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What really made it was the fact that in the Museum the guy gave Dean the message from Ellen!
She would come back and kick his butt!
Also, it was the push so to speak that Dean finally spoke with Sam about the attitude.
Also what was really important was the fact that Dean admitted 'Since Cass I'm having a hard time trust anyone' - well that really sums up what he's been dealing with too! Glad they are working together - would be interesting to find out what Sam was doing for the 1 1/2 weeks he was away from Dean!
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And yeah, my heart broke a little for Dean when he mentioned Cas and his trust issues. Poor son of a bitch...
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THIS. I believe you are CORRECT.
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Right from the start it's been a revenge gig for Sam, but Dean was in it to actually help people.
Hell yeah...
Liked the SN touches, Ellen's little message, etc. Wished to God Dean had gotten his palm read for real...maybe revealing something good for his future..? Maybe not.
Re: Hell yeah...
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I still think the characterisation/continuity is off. Having Dean say that killing Amy felt right but lying to Sam felt wrong seemed to me like a convenient get-out of the storyline. If you took the "Defending Your Life" episode as a standalone, the implication was definitely that Dean felt guilty about Amy herself - after all, the nightmares were about her, not Sam. I just feel like things are bouncing around too much without reference to what's gone before. But maybe that's just me.
Actually, as far as that goes, I felt that Sam and Dean's little tiff got wrapped up way too quickly and conveniently. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure we're all glad not to have weeks of angsty, whiny bitching and morose silences, but given the way they've always acted in the past, it didn't quite gel with me. Perhaps they're growing as people? Except that, in this instance, it was basically like Sam completely caved. There wasn't even as much challenge about the whole lying thing as I would have expected.
And...random beyond the grave message, anyone? Dean's acting much better and like he's having fun (as you said), but Sam - and, apparently, Ellen - think that he's falling apart.
All in all, this felt rather like the first episode to me, i.e. too fast and convenient. Every few episodes it seems to be like they're sweeping out the storylines in the most expedient way, and something just feels off about it. You know me - I'm all about the wincest (and let's not even talk about the crying at the Christmas ep), so in theory I should have been ecstatic about the boys basically making up. But...it left me a little cold.
Or maybe I just like them mad at each other so I can imagine them grudge-fucking. :P
(Also, just have to say, Sam killing some douchebag who was so jealous of the more successful people in town that he started offing them really isn't the same thing as what happened with Amy. So I don't think it should suddenly have caused some massive revelation. And, well, if the writers intended it that way, then they're sucking even worse than I gave them credit for.)
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Regardless of her reasons she was a killer, and she'd probably have killed again.
And I know that that guy was a douchebag, but I think Sam killing him was huge. He's always the one saying they can't kill people - like when there witches or just regular humans doing bad shit, Dean would say they had to kill them and Sam would be all 'no, we can't, he's human!'.
But yeah, it did seem to get resolved a little quick (hence robbing us of the wonderful grudgefucking!) but I'm mostly okay with it. Sam was being particularly bitchy about the whole thing and I can do without that. Being angry I get, but he was just... a bitch.
It all does seem pretty all over the place though, in terms of character development. Oh well. So long as they keep being pretty, I'm good :)
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Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and YES! This. All of it. I was thinking that Sam looked SO remorseful for a second with that huge sigh . . . but then he got past it and went about his business.
And how much do I love that Dean's whole problem wasn't killing Amy, but in lying to Sam about it? LOTS!!! He's all 'I was lying to you and it felt wrong'. GOD! Made of win. At least Dean's learned that lesson. Always tell Sam the truth.
That's what got me, too. The "it felt wrong" part. Do what you will, Dean, but don't ever lie to Sam about it. And yes, they need to talk to each other like this MORE. Before Ellen comes to kick some ass. ;)
This post is SO full of win. Everything. Perfect.
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Stupid, stupid boys. *sigh* Good thing they have their looks ;)
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I loved that Ellen threatened to kick Dean's ass if he didn't take better care of himself. Nicely reinforces Jo's efforts to reassure him he's not to blame for her death.
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But yeah, for Dean it's always seemed like he's in it for helping people, for Sam it's more like a mission, a goal he needs to accomplish.
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And I kinda don't get Sam acting like a dick and acting strange? Sure, in this episode he was grumpy and moody, but that's because he's forced into the same proximity as his brother who lied to him. IDK, /shrugs. I'd be pms-ing too if my lover did that to me. D< As for his supposedly odd behavior, I just flat out have no idea, because either I'm not paying enough attention or you have very keen eyes ;D
I think Sam actually doesn't really care about people as much as Dean does, never did, and I think now that's starting to come through.
Really?! lol That's quite an opinion you got there. It's interesting, though. Maybe it's because Sam's more logical and less emotional when it comes to hunting and solving cases? Perhaps that's why Bobby thinks he's a better hunter than Dean. But I have to ask: what about Dean's persistence on seeing things in black and white while Sam tends to lean more towards the gray areas? I mean, Dean definitely sympathizes and empathizes, but his decisions are usually much more hasty and purely based on instinct. lol Dean and first impressions have been tricky, whether it's him doing the judging or someone else is judging him. Sam's usually the one telling him to slow down and think about it first before actually accusing their suspects, whether monster or human, and he'll keep mulling things over while Dean is off somewhere being antsy. So do you think it's Sam just focusing on the hunt and feeding his curiosity when he's trying to solve cases rather than actually caring for people? I'm not being sarcastic or confrontational, just to let you know. My tone is basically curious because my interest was piqued. lol
I've always thought both boys genuinely cared about saving people because they have this hero complex that's inherent in the Winchester bloodline. They're good people who care, and yes Sam got back into hunting for revenge, but that was then? lol It's been seven years or so. I'm pretty sure he's over that. Victims/witnesses aside, since it's easy to sympathize with them, Sam is usually the one trying to find the reasons and motives behind the killings, searching for that gray area in his suspects. It's kinda weird to think of Sam Winchester as someone who doesn't care enough.
Anyways, sorry for the long reply. I just finished reading your knew fic, and then I saw this post on your page and was in a thinking mood. It's your fault for writing brain-stimulating stories and ideas? :D hehe
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I've been thining for a while now that Dean is kind of checking out. The first few episodes of the season he felt a lot like he did when he was going to say yes to Michael, like he's given up. It's starting to get better now, but for a while there I think he just didn't really care enough about anything, not even Sam, to tell the truth.
I mean, I know he went through a lot (wich Lisa and Ben and Cas) and I get that he was having a hard time, but if the boys have learned ONE THING by now, it should be never lie to each other.
Stupid Lucifer. Dean should use his magical healing cock to help Sam get over it. Then they'd both be happy!
No worries, honey, you're not coming across confrontational :) I always welcome different opinions and debate, as long as everybody plays nice. But to answer your questions... *sigh* Let's see.
Hunting for Dean has always been about helping people. Always. Sure, when they were kids it was because it was Dad told him to do, but he loved it, grew into the life and wanted to do something good. For Sam though, it seems to be selfishly motivated.
From the start, it was a revenge gig. Right from the second episode, Sam’s all ‘Rawr, kill!’ and Dean’s all ‘Yeah, I get it, but right here right now, people need help and we’re going to help them. It’s what we do’.
And then pretty much as soon as John gets killed and they find out about ‘Dad says I might have to kill you because you might be evil’ an then in PLAYTHINGS Sam gets drunk and starts talking about ‘I need to save people because if I do it cancels out this evil inside me’. It’s not because of them, it’s because of him. That keeps going after they kill Azazel - his motivation is turning himself 'good' now, rather than revenge.
Just the way Dean deals with the people they meet… He comes off cocky and kind of an ass at first, but he’s usually the one who’s better able to relate. He seems genuine, where Sam’s concern often seems false or forced. Back in NIGHTSHIFTERS, Dean was trying to talk Ronald down from the case by being his friend, Sam was fed up of the bullshit pretty fast and just basically a dick.
In TALL TALES, when they’re talking to that jock about his alien abduction, Dean’s laughing and making fun of him, but he gives him a genuine ‘that sucks, man’, where Sam is giving him the sympathetic face but as soon as Jock Guy turns his back to look at Dean, Sam snickers, like he’s only pretending to care about him.
It’s things like that.
Sure, that’s changed a little over the years. Lately, Dean seems like he doesn’t give much of a shit about anything at all and Sam’s more about saving people – but again, I feel a lot of that has to do with Sam seeking redemption.
And I think Sam is more willing to see the gray areas because Sam is a gray area. He’s got demon blood in him and he’s never getting it out and it’s fucked him up in huge, huge ways, made him do horrible things and he’s afraid it always will. Sam’s whole ‘let’s think this through and not shoot on sight’ mentality didn’t really start until after they found out about the demon blood. Before that, I don’t think ever of them even entertained the idea that monsters=evil might not be true.
But now Sam probably figures that if these ‘gray area’ monsters they come across can actually stop hurting people and be something good, it gives Sam hope for himself.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Sam can care one hell of a lot about people, but mostly just the people he’s close with. I love them both, but it’s always seemed to me that Sam is the character with the story line and Dean is the character with the emotions.
PS: Bobby doesn't think Sam is a better hunter. He thought Sam was a better hunter when he was soulless and Dean had just gotten back from a year off.
/essay
:)
(sorry, jumbled a few of those thoughts on John and Azazel. was typing too quickly)